For John Leighton, coming to Scotland to take up the post of the director-general of the National Galleries of Scotland (NGS) after nine years as the director of the Van Gogh Museum in Amsterdam meant a kind of re-education. And it has opened his eyes to the stark contrast between the continent and the UK in terms of the handling of cultural matters.
Leighton began his tenure in Scotland by having dinners and lunches with 'interested parties'. They have included civil servants, members of the Scottish Executive, donors, Friends groups and artists. Meeting those who matter is the inevitable start to a high-profile job.
Leighton says that there is a lot of interest in the post, and cites the prominence of the National Galleries in national and international art circles. But he also mentions, and I suspect it's a big factor, a widespread interest in who will be filling the shoes of his 'flamboyant predecessor'.
He then swiftly turns to one of the reasons that afforded Timothy Clifford, who retired from the post in January, a very visible public profile - the media.
Leighton is less than enamoured with the UK media. He is happy with the heightened interest in culture over the past decade from the fourth estate, but believes the coverage is fairly predictable. The hunt is always on for the sensational angle, he says.
He goes on to tell me about that morning's unveiling of a picture of the Scottish Hollywood actor Brian Cox at Scotland's National Portrait Gallery. He says 'there's no problem getting a barrage of press interested' in an event like that.
Compare that with the opening of a temporary exhibition on the work of Adam Elsheimer in June at the National Gallery of Scotland. The 16th-century German painter produced just 34 paintings in his lifetime, 31 of which are in the show.
'You know however good it is, however exemplary the presentation is, the scholarly standards and selection, there won't be a barrage of photographers waiting there when you open the exhibition.'
Leighton has been in the job four months. The move represents a return to Scotland where he completed one of two masters courses.
The first in fine arts was at the University of Edinburgh and the Edinburgh College of Art, and the second a year later in history of art at the Courtauld in London. Soon after, he took lecturing posts at both of the Edinburgh institutions over a three-year period before heading to the National Gallery in London to curate in his specialist area - 19th-century paintings.
There are some elements of returning to the UK that have caught Leighton on the hop. 'I hadn't quite realised the gap that has grown between the more aggressive, news-hungry, sensationalist UK press and the rather more considered continental approach that has a bit more distance and is also prepared to go into a bit more depth,' he says. 'That has been one of the rather less encouraging aspects of moving back here.'
But he does have a good word to say about UK critics - they either 'praise or slam' - whereas in Holland they rarely reveal whether a show was liked or not.
Leighton pauses a lot during the interview - after nine years perhaps the more considered approach has rubbed off. But when he struggles to translate museum names from Dutch to English (such as Naturalis into Natural History) I realise he is still adjusting to communicating in English all the time.
Using his native tongue once again is likely to be one of Leighton's least meaty challenges. Having come from a one-site museum to the galleries, which has five sites in Edinburgh and two partner galleries on the Scottish Borders, but working with a similar budget, is one major area where inspiration will be needed.
Leighton says Holland's cultural budget, like most places in Europe, is tight and Holland has been battling recession since 2001. But the Van Gogh Museum is financially healthy because more than 50 per cent of its budget annually is from ticket sales, and last year it welcomed about 1.4 million visitors.
The Van Gogh Museum is graced with a thriving acquisition fund thanks to the lottery, and its total budget amounts to about £11m a year. Compare that with the National Galleries, where all sites share a £15m-a-year budget (£11m of that is from grant-in-aid).
Van Gogh also has the advantage of being instantly recognisable; an international brand that has the kudos to attract money. There is no such ease in marketing the National Galleries of Scotland. You could say that Clifford himself was some kind of brand, but Leighton has no plans to emulate his predecessor in this way (there is no talk of 'my collection' or 'my gallery') although he knows he will have a larger fundraising role to play in Edinburgh than before.
So what sort of man has taken over from the headline-maker Clifford? One story goes that knowing he was going to Holland, Leighton learned enough of the language to give his first address to the museum's staff in Dutch. Getting on with people is clearly important to Leighton. But he is likely to attract some critics with his stance on access and engagement.
'Traditionally, our institution has been about collections, collecting and presenting. What we have to do is to promote a shift from the collections to the people who use them.' He says he wants the public's 'enjoyment, inspiration and education' to take a more central role.
In comparison to 'the cathedral of the people' - Glasgow's Kelvingrove - Leighton says the National Galleries has a reputation, 'perhaps unfairly', of being aloof. 'Traditionally, in Glasgow and Edinburgh there has never been much love, collaboration or partnership between the two.'
One remedy could be to get a piece of the Kelvingrove-action. A newly-refurbished Kelvingrove is the talk of Scotland. Early discussions between Leighton and Mark O'Neill, the head of arts and museums in Glasgow, will hopefully begin to forge a new east/west Scotland coalition, in contrast to the reports about Clifford meddling rather than collaborating in other Scottish cities' cultural affairs.
'I am hoping that instead of turning our backs on one another we can do more together,' says Leighton. He also wants to do more touring exhibitions with partner galleries across Scotland.
He is especially keen to make sure that the modern and contemporary collections at the National Galleries live up to the quality of the Old Masters. 'I don't want a tailing off so that the more modern the collection gets the less interesting it becomes.'
Leighton's interest in the Anthony d'Offay collection of contemporary British artists has been widely reported in the Scottish press. Talks with d'Offay have begun, but Leighton denies the £100m price tag that the press has cited as the asking price for the collection.
With the opening of the Weston Link in 2004 (linking the Royal Scottish Academy to the National Gallery of Scotland), Leighton says: 'Edinburgh now has the largest exhibition space attached to any gallery in Europe with the exception of Berlin. So we have the potential to mount truly important shows here.'
He also points to the need to spend £16m refurbishing the Scottish National Portrait Gallery. He says it is important because it represents Scottish identity, but he adds it is 'no longer fit for purpose'. A fundraising project is underway.
One area he says the UK leads over Holland is in government interest and engagement in culture. 'In Holland, the government tended to withdraw from culture saying, we fund it, but we are happy to hide behind the quangos and leave it up to them to make the decisions.
'In the UK, there is an understanding that culture isn't something separate from real life or hobbyish. It has a real role to play in the way people feel about their lives. That was beginning to be
filtered out of the Dutch context.'
He thinks the reason was that Dutch politicians felt culture was becoming 'too dangerous and too expensive'. But Leighton says it is too easy not to engage in the debate. 'You can't separate art, society and politics as the example [of the murder] of the film-maker Theo van Gogh shows.'
He then apologises for getting too deep. But he makes a major point - culture, identity and the arts seem to matter increasingly in the UK. Leighton's plans will surely help to push that agenda.
Leighton also hopes to keep his hand in curating while in Scotland, 'It will be my aspiration,' he says. 'It reminds you of what's important and what you do it for.'
Feature on the redeveloped Kelvingrove Art Gallery and Museum on p34
Leighton began his tenure in Scotland by having dinners and lunches with 'interested parties'. They have included civil servants, members of the Scottish Executive, donors, Friends groups and artists. Meeting those who matter is the inevitable start to a high-profile job.
Leighton says that there is a lot of interest in the post, and cites the prominence of the National Galleries in national and international art circles. But he also mentions, and I suspect it's a big factor, a widespread interest in who will be filling the shoes of his 'flamboyant predecessor'.
He then swiftly turns to one of the reasons that afforded Timothy Clifford, who retired from the post in January, a very visible public profile - the media.
Leighton is less than enamoured with the UK media. He is happy with the heightened interest in culture over the past decade from the fourth estate, but believes the coverage is fairly predictable. The hunt is always on for the sensational angle, he says.
He goes on to tell me about that morning's unveiling of a picture of the Scottish Hollywood actor Brian Cox at Scotland's National Portrait Gallery. He says 'there's no problem getting a barrage of press interested' in an event like that.
Compare that with the opening of a temporary exhibition on the work of Adam Elsheimer in June at the National Gallery of Scotland. The 16th-century German painter produced just 34 paintings in his lifetime, 31 of which are in the show.
'You know however good it is, however exemplary the presentation is, the scholarly standards and selection, there won't be a barrage of photographers waiting there when you open the exhibition.'
Leighton has been in the job four months. The move represents a return to Scotland where he completed one of two masters courses.
The first in fine arts was at the University of Edinburgh and the Edinburgh College of Art, and the second a year later in history of art at the Courtauld in London. Soon after, he took lecturing posts at both of the Edinburgh institutions over a three-year period before heading to the National Gallery in London to curate in his specialist area - 19th-century paintings.
There are some elements of returning to the UK that have caught Leighton on the hop. 'I hadn't quite realised the gap that has grown between the more aggressive, news-hungry, sensationalist UK press and the rather more considered continental approach that has a bit more distance and is also prepared to go into a bit more depth,' he says. 'That has been one of the rather less encouraging aspects of moving back here.'
But he does have a good word to say about UK critics - they either 'praise or slam' - whereas in Holland they rarely reveal whether a show was liked or not.
Leighton pauses a lot during the interview - after nine years perhaps the more considered approach has rubbed off. But when he struggles to translate museum names from Dutch to English (such as Naturalis into Natural History) I realise he is still adjusting to communicating in English all the time.
Using his native tongue once again is likely to be one of Leighton's least meaty challenges. Having come from a one-site museum to the galleries, which has five sites in Edinburgh and two partner galleries on the Scottish Borders, but working with a similar budget, is one major area where inspiration will be needed.
Leighton says Holland's cultural budget, like most places in Europe, is tight and Holland has been battling recession since 2001. But the Van Gogh Museum is financially healthy because more than 50 per cent of its budget annually is from ticket sales, and last year it welcomed about 1.4 million visitors.
The Van Gogh Museum is graced with a thriving acquisition fund thanks to the lottery, and its total budget amounts to about £11m a year. Compare that with the National Galleries, where all sites share a £15m-a-year budget (£11m of that is from grant-in-aid).
Van Gogh also has the advantage of being instantly recognisable; an international brand that has the kudos to attract money. There is no such ease in marketing the National Galleries of Scotland. You could say that Clifford himself was some kind of brand, but Leighton has no plans to emulate his predecessor in this way (there is no talk of 'my collection' or 'my gallery') although he knows he will have a larger fundraising role to play in Edinburgh than before.
So what sort of man has taken over from the headline-maker Clifford? One story goes that knowing he was going to Holland, Leighton learned enough of the language to give his first address to the museum's staff in Dutch. Getting on with people is clearly important to Leighton. But he is likely to attract some critics with his stance on access and engagement.
'Traditionally, our institution has been about collections, collecting and presenting. What we have to do is to promote a shift from the collections to the people who use them.' He says he wants the public's 'enjoyment, inspiration and education' to take a more central role.
In comparison to 'the cathedral of the people' - Glasgow's Kelvingrove - Leighton says the National Galleries has a reputation, 'perhaps unfairly', of being aloof. 'Traditionally, in Glasgow and Edinburgh there has never been much love, collaboration or partnership between the two.'
One remedy could be to get a piece of the Kelvingrove-action. A newly-refurbished Kelvingrove is the talk of Scotland. Early discussions between Leighton and Mark O'Neill, the head of arts and museums in Glasgow, will hopefully begin to forge a new east/west Scotland coalition, in contrast to the reports about Clifford meddling rather than collaborating in other Scottish cities' cultural affairs.
'I am hoping that instead of turning our backs on one another we can do more together,' says Leighton. He also wants to do more touring exhibitions with partner galleries across Scotland.
He is especially keen to make sure that the modern and contemporary collections at the National Galleries live up to the quality of the Old Masters. 'I don't want a tailing off so that the more modern the collection gets the less interesting it becomes.'
Leighton's interest in the Anthony d'Offay collection of contemporary British artists has been widely reported in the Scottish press. Talks with d'Offay have begun, but Leighton denies the £100m price tag that the press has cited as the asking price for the collection.
With the opening of the Weston Link in 2004 (linking the Royal Scottish Academy to the National Gallery of Scotland), Leighton says: 'Edinburgh now has the largest exhibition space attached to any gallery in Europe with the exception of Berlin. So we have the potential to mount truly important shows here.'
He also points to the need to spend £16m refurbishing the Scottish National Portrait Gallery. He says it is important because it represents Scottish identity, but he adds it is 'no longer fit for purpose'. A fundraising project is underway.
One area he says the UK leads over Holland is in government interest and engagement in culture. 'In Holland, the government tended to withdraw from culture saying, we fund it, but we are happy to hide behind the quangos and leave it up to them to make the decisions.
'In the UK, there is an understanding that culture isn't something separate from real life or hobbyish. It has a real role to play in the way people feel about their lives. That was beginning to be
filtered out of the Dutch context.'
He thinks the reason was that Dutch politicians felt culture was becoming 'too dangerous and too expensive'. But Leighton says it is too easy not to engage in the debate. 'You can't separate art, society and politics as the example [of the murder] of the film-maker Theo van Gogh shows.'
He then apologises for getting too deep. But he makes a major point - culture, identity and the arts seem to matter increasingly in the UK. Leighton's plans will surely help to push that agenda.
Leighton also hopes to keep his hand in curating while in Scotland, 'It will be my aspiration,' he says. 'It reminds you of what's important and what you do it for.'
Feature on the redeveloped Kelvingrove Art Gallery and Museum on p34
